hurricanepilot

Chris Whitworth wrote:

> On 2012-02-03, hurricanepilot <h@g.c> wrote:
>> Chris Whitworth wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, this thing's still here, right, yes.
>>>
>>> I'll be playing:
>>>
>>> Final Fantasy XIII-2 (X360) - Because I'm a masochist and I hate myself. Even
>>> though XIII was a massive disappointment and as linear as a Call of Duty
>>> game, I'm somehow hoping I might enjoy this one more.
>>
>> Not being an FF afficionado in any way, what's the deal with the -2
>> thing that some of the FF versions sport? Are they actual sequels or
>> just asides?
>
> It's two things: First, it's a direct sequel, incoporating some of the same
> characters, broadly continuing the plotline from FF XIII. Secondly, and
> more significantly, it's basically a tacit admission that they fucked up the
> first one and are having another go at it.

Towns this time? Or is it just another great big encounter corridor?

>>> AssCreed 2 (PC) - Finished AssCreed 1 the other week and the ending made me
>>> angry, so obviously I'm going to play the sequel next.
>>
>> Which bit made you angry? just how it ended?
>
> Well, the story just sort of... stopped, after a dickload of annoying fighting
> bits. I felt cheated.

Ah, right. I think the fighting at the end of the first game is aimed at
those people that have gotten completely to grips with it during their
playthrough. I could never get the timing right for combos, as the game
seemed to want me to hit the attack button as the last attack struck.
Didn't feel right to me. The later games are much easier in that
respect.

As for the story, get used to it. Having played them all up to
Revelations now, I can happily say that they don't have a fucking clue
how this story ends and never have. I certainly won't be playing another
AC game until the main story arc has completely ended. Which probably
just means I'll never play another AC game. It's annoying, as the actual
story within revelations is well exectuted and fun to play, but you just
get left hanging at the end with no real explanation as to why you just
did all the things you just did.

What worries me is that they're doing with a game what writers do on a
show like Lost - keep it goinging, adding layers of mystery and only
when the audience seems to have finally reached breaking point is it all
sewn up. The worry in that comes from the fact that, unlike with a TV
serieis like Lost, you know full well when people stop playing AC
because it's disappeared too far up it's own arse, Ubisoft will just
pull the plug. There won't be a "final season" wrapping up the loose
ends.

Chris Whitworth

On 2012-02-06, hurricanepilot <h@g.c> wrote:
> Chris Whitworth wrote:
>
>> On 2012-02-03, hurricanepilot <h@g.c> wrote:
>>> Chris Whitworth wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh, this thing's still here, right, yes.
>>>>
>>>> I'll be playing:
>>>>
>>>> Final Fantasy XIII-2 (X360) - Because I'm a masochist and I hate myself. Even
>>>> though XIII was a massive disappointment and as linear as a Call of Duty
>>>> game, I'm somehow hoping I might enjoy this one more.
>>>
>>> Not being an FF afficionado in any way, what's the deal with the -2
>>> thing that some of the FF versions sport? Are they actual sequels or
>>> just asides?
>>
>> It's two things: First, it's a direct sequel, incoporating some of the same
>> characters, broadly continuing the plotline from FF XIII. Secondly, and
>> more significantly, it's basically a tacit admission that they fucked up the
>> first one and are having another go at it.
>
> Towns this time? Or is it just another great big encounter corridor?

See PWB - basically, no corridors so far, reasonably open and you get a world
map (kind of, it's also a temporal map, it's a bit complicated) early on. You
can even talk to people. It's quite a lot better.

>>>> AssCreed 2 (PC) - Finished AssCreed 1 the other week and the ending made me
>>>> angry, so obviously I'm going to play the sequel next.
>>>
>>> Which bit made you angry? just how it ended?
>>
>> Well, the story just sort of... stopped, after a dickload of annoying fighting
>> bits. I felt cheated.
>
> Ah, right. I think the fighting at the end of the first game is aimed at
> those people that have gotten completely to grips with it during their
> playthrough. I could never get the timing right for combos, as the game
> seemed to want me to hit the attack button as the last attack struck.
> Didn't feel right to me. The later games are much easier in that
> respect.

Yeah. I found it weird, given it was supposed to be an Assassin-em-up, how
much time I spent fighting big groups of people. I think I only managed one
or two "target" assassinations in the whole game by being sneaky. All the rest
were just big fights.

> As for the story, get used to it. Having played them all up to
> Revelations now, I can happily say that they don't have a fucking clue
> how this story ends and never have. I certainly won't be playing another
> AC game until the main story arc has completely ended. Which probably
> just means I'll never play another AC game. It's annoying, as the actual
> story within revelations is well exectuted and fun to play, but you just
> get left hanging at the end with no real explanation as to why you just
> did all the things you just did.

Hm. That's a bit sad, I was hoping things might begin to make a bit more
sense. Oh well. Less incentive for me to devote large wedges of time into it,
anyway.

Chris

gunthergloop

On 06/02/2012 10:54, Chris Whitworth wrote:
>
>> > As for the story, get used to it. Having played them all up to
>> > Revelations now, I can happily say that they don't have a fucking clue
>> > how this story ends and never have. I certainly won't be playing another
>> > AC game until the main story arc has completely ended. Which probably
>> > just means I'll never play another AC game. It's annoying, as the actual
>> > story within revelations is well exectuted and fun to play, but you just
>> > get left hanging at the end with no real explanation as to why you just
>> > did all the things you just did.
> Hm. That's a bit sad, I was hoping things might begin to make a bit more
> sense. Oh well. Less incentive for me to devote large wedges of time into it,
> anyway.

But but but... it's a _game_. It's great fun. Brotherhood especially is
the pinnacle of gaming greatness. I couldn't tell you one thing about
any of the games' stories. WHAT stories?? ...Run around, chasing things,
killing things, climbing lovely buildings, occasionally have a read
about some building or other, immerse yourself in rennaisance-era daily
life & living (well, as well as anywhere else -Brotherhood especially
almost nails it I would think.)
Then the end comes. Wait for the next one.

The attraction for me is which city will be next and how nice will it
look and will they add anything extra that will be any good. Story? We
don't need no steenking story!

-Kevin.

Chris Whitworth

On 2012-02-06, gunthergloop <news1@keviSPAMNOnforde.com> wrote:
> On 06/02/2012 10:54, Chris Whitworth wrote:
>>
>>> > As for the story, get used to it. Having played them all up to
>>> > Revelations now, I can happily say that they don't have a fucking clue
>>> > how this story ends and never have. I certainly won't be playing another
>>> > AC game until the main story arc has completely ended. Which probably
>>> > just means I'll never play another AC game. It's annoying, as the actual
>>> > story within revelations is well exectuted and fun to play, but you just
>>> > get left hanging at the end with no real explanation as to why you just
>>> > did all the things you just did.
>> Hm. That's a bit sad, I was hoping things might begin to make a bit more
>> sense. Oh well. Less incentive for me to devote large wedges of time into it,
>> anyway.
>
> But but but... it's a _game_. It's great fun. Brotherhood especially is
> the pinnacle of gaming greatness. I couldn't tell you one thing about
> any of the games' stories. WHAT stories?? ...Run around, chasing things,
> killing things, climbing lovely buildings, occasionally have a read
> about some building or other, immerse yourself in rennaisance-era daily
> life & living (well, as well as anywhere else -Brotherhood especially
> almost nails it I would think.)
> Then the end comes. Wait for the next one.
>
> The attraction for me is which city will be next and how nice will it
> look and will they add anything extra that will be any good. Story? We
> don't need no steenking story!

Oh, don't get me wrong. I loved the three cities in AC1 - they looked brilliant
and I had a bit of fun wandering round them. But the actual game itself
consisted of doing the same thing over and over again, and it was quite fun
the first time, but after a while it became somewhat rote, and then the
various problems with the engine (like the way Altair would suddenly stop
climbing for no reason and refuse to reach for the ledge above him unless you
moved him a little bit left and right first, or the way counter only seems to
work about 50% of the time, or the fact that water == instadeath) really began
to grate.

I gather a lot of this stuff has been smoothed out in AC2, but the first hour
didn't really grab me (probably still pissed off about the uPlay nonsense, tbf)
I'll probably carry on but... I like stories, too.

Chris

gunthergloop

On 06/02/2012 11:34, Chris Whitworth wrote:
> On 2012-02-06, gunthergloop<news1@keviSPAMNOnforde.com> wrote:
>> On 06/02/2012 10:54, Chris Whitworth wrote:
>>>
>>>>> As for the story, get used to it. Having played them all up to
>>>>> Revelations now, I can happily say that they don't have a fucking clue
>>>>> how this story ends and never have. I certainly won't be playing another
>>>>> AC game until the main story arc has completely ended. Which probably
>>>>> just means I'll never play another AC game. It's annoying, as the actual
>>>>> story within revelations is well exectuted and fun to play, but you just
>>>>> get left hanging at the end with no real explanation as to why you just
>>>>> did all the things you just did.
>>> Hm. That's a bit sad, I was hoping things might begin to make a bit more
>>> sense. Oh well. Less incentive for me to devote large wedges of time into it,
>>> anyway.
>>
>> But but but... it's a _game_. It's great fun. Brotherhood especially is
>> the pinnacle of gaming greatness. I couldn't tell you one thing about
>> any of the games' stories. WHAT stories?? ...Run around, chasing things,
>> killing things, climbing lovely buildings, occasionally have a read
>> about some building or other, immerse yourself in rennaisance-era daily
>> life& living (well, as well as anywhere else -Brotherhood especially
>> almost nails it I would think.)
>> Then the end comes. Wait for the next one.
>>
>> The attraction for me is which city will be next and how nice will it
>> look and will they add anything extra that will be any good. Story? We
>> don't need no steenking story!
>
> Oh, don't get me wrong. I loved the three cities in AC1 - they looked brilliant
> and I had a bit of fun wandering round them. But the actual game itself
> consisted of doing the same thing over and over again, and it was quite fun
> the first time, but after a while it became somewhat rote, and then the
> various problems with the engine (like the way Altair would suddenly stop
> climbing for no reason and refuse to reach for the ledge above him unless you
> moved him a little bit left and right first, or the way counter only seems to
> work about 50% of the time, or the fact that water == instadeath) really began
> to grate.
>
> I gather a lot of this stuff has been smoothed out in AC2, but the first hour
> didn't really grab me (probably still pissed off about the uPlay nonsense, tbf)


If you stop playing without having played Brotherhood you've not seen
what I call "Assassin's Creed 1.0". What came before are betas.
Brotherhood is the first one.

> I'll probably carry on but... I like stories, too.
>

Read a book. Games will _never_ do it anywhere near as well as is
possible in other formats. I gave up expecting or even wanting games to
do that, possibly around the time of Wing Commander.

-Kevin.

hurricanepilot

gunthergloop wrote:

>> I gather a lot of this stuff has been smoothed out in AC2, but the first hour
>> didn't really grab me (probably still pissed off about the uPlay nonsense, tbf)
>
>
> If you stop playing without having played Brotherhood you've not seen
> what I call "Assassin's Creed 1.0". What came before are betas.
> Brotherhood is the first one.

While I agree that brotherhood was an improvement over AC2 in terms of
getting the more open gameplay right, I will forever miss the focused
assassination gameplay of the first game. It's a travesty that they
threw that out in favour of GTA style open world adventure, leaving the
assassinations as nothing more than a distraction.

>> I'll probably carry on but... I like stories, too.
>
> Read a book. Games will _never_ do it anywhere near as well as is
> possible in other formats. I gave up expecting or even wanting games to
> do that, possibly around the time of Wing Commander.

Some people enjoy the stories in games. If you don't, that's cool, but
there's really no need to be so dismissive of what motivates others to
play.

gunthergloop

On 06/02/2012 12:26, hurricanepilot wrote:
> gunthergloop wrote:
>>> I'll probably carry on but... I like stories, too.
>>
>> Read a book. Games will _never_ do it anywhere near as well as is
>> possible in other formats. I gave up expecting or even wanting games to
>> do that, possibly around the time of Wing Commander.
>
> Some people enjoy the stories in games. If you don't, that's cool, but
> there's really no need to be so dismissive of what motivates others to
> play.

Quite right... I rarely (well I try to 'rarely') speak or even think in
a "you're wrong and I'm right" manner... and if I do I'll defend your
right to disagree as fiercely as I defend my own position/ try to convince.
However in this case I'm right and anyone playing videogames because
they like stories is plain ole wrong.

-Kevin.

deKay

gunthergloop <news1@keviSPAMNOnforde.com> wrote:
> On 06/02/2012 12:26, hurricanepilot wrote:
>> gunthergloop wrote:
>>>> I'll probably carry on but... I like stories, too.
>>>
>>> Read a book. Games will _never_ do it anywhere near as well as is
>>> possible in other formats. I gave up expecting or even wanting games to
>>> do that, possibly around the time of Wing Commander.
>>
>> Some people enjoy the stories in games. If you don't, that's cool, but
>> there's really no need to be so dismissive of what motivates others to
>> play.
>
> Quite right... I rarely (well I try to 'rarely') speak or even think in a
> "you're wrong and I'm right" manner... and if I do I'll defend your right
> to disagree as fiercely as I defend my own position/ try to convince.
> However in this case I'm right and anyone playing videogames because they
> like stories is plain ole wrong.
>
> -Kevin.

I often play games because I like stories. Quite frequently I complete
sub-par games just to get the rest of the story.

Crysis 2, for example. Big chunks of that were dull and rubbish, but the
story pushed me on.

--
Sent from my iPhone

gunthergloop

On 07/02/2012 07:14, deKay wrote:
> gunthergloop<news1@keviSPAMNOnforde.com> wrote:
>> On 06/02/2012 12:26, hurricanepilot wrote:
>>> gunthergloop wrote:
>>>>> I'll probably carry on but... I like stories, too.
>>>>
>>>> Read a book. Games will _never_ do it anywhere near as well as is
>>>> possible in other formats. I gave up expecting or even wanting games to
>>>> do that, possibly around the time of Wing Commander.
>>>
>>> Some people enjoy the stories in games. If you don't, that's cool, but
>>> there's really no need to be so dismissive of what motivates others to
>>> play.
>>
>> Quite right... I rarely (well I try to 'rarely') speak or even think in a
>> "you're wrong and I'm right" manner... and if I do I'll defend your right
>> to disagree as fiercely as I defend my own position/ try to convince.
>> However in this case I'm right and anyone playing videogames because they
>> like stories is plain ole wrong.
>>
>> -Kevin.
>
> I often play games because I like stories. Quite frequently I complete
> sub-par games just to get the rest of the story.
>
> Crysis 2, for example. Big chunks of that were dull and rubbish, but the
> story pushed me on.
>

I'm not saying there are no stories in games. I'm saying if you're
looking for stories, games will never be best -and even if a game has an
excellent story it'll never be best told in that format... or else the
game element of the story suffers badly.

....I'll be happy if any of you would like to cut & paste those words and
be ready to fling them back at me anytime you feel they've been proven
wrong.

-Kevin.

Toby Newman

On 2012-02-07, gunthergloop <news1@keviSPAMNOnforde.com> wrote:
> On 07/02/2012 07:14, deKay wrote:
>> gunthergloop<news1@keviSPAMNOnforde.com> wrote:
>>> On 06/02/2012 12:26, hurricanepilot wrote:
>>>> gunthergloop wrote:
>>>>>> I'll probably carry on but... I like stories, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Read a book. Games will _never_ do it anywhere near as well as is
>>>>> possible in other formats. I gave up expecting or even wanting games to
>>>>> do that, possibly around the time of Wing Commander.
>>>>
>>>> Some people enjoy the stories in games. If you don't, that's cool, but
>>>> there's really no need to be so dismissive of what motivates others to
>>>> play.
>>>
>>> Quite right... I rarely (well I try to 'rarely') speak or even think in a
>>> "you're wrong and I'm right" manner... and if I do I'll defend your right
>>> to disagree as fiercely as I defend my own position/ try to convince.
>>> However in this case I'm right and anyone playing videogames because they
>>> like stories is plain ole wrong.
>>>
>>> -Kevin.
>>
>> I often play games because I like stories. Quite frequently I complete
>> sub-par games just to get the rest of the story.
>>
>> Crysis 2, for example. Big chunks of that were dull and rubbish, but the
>> story pushed me on.
>>
>
> I'm not saying there are no stories in games. I'm saying if you're
> looking for stories, games will never be best -and even if a game has an
> excellent story it'll never be best told in that format... or else the
> game element of the story suffers badly.
>
> ...I'll be happy if any of you would like to cut & paste those words and
> be ready to fling them back at me anytime you feel they've been proven
> wrong.

What about if you represent a book inside a game?
Surely then the game would deliver the same story as a book.

--
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.